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+--- Thread: Unknown murexes (/showthread.php?tid=1526)
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Unknown murexes - wateryworld - 12-18-2011
Hello! I was given these two little brown shells yesterday, claimed they were likely murex, although that might be just the first one. Anyone know if this is so and possibly what types? Thanks!
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Re: Unknown murexes - poseidon - 12-19-2011
I'm not sure about the first one but the second murex should be a juv. of chicoreus endivia
Re: Unknown murexes - wateryworld - 12-19-2011
Interesting, I already have an endive murex and it was listed as "Hexaplex cichoreum", not "chicoreus endivia", which one is actually correct or are these two synonyms?
I would have thought that the *first* one with the white striping would possibly be an endive much more than the second... it's frustrating when a single family can have so many species that look so much alike!
Re: Unknown murexes - poseidon - 12-23-2011
yes the first is actually the correct name meaning chicoreum
Re: Unknown murexes - Emma - 12-26-2011
I collect "Hexaplex cichoreum" (endive murex) and I have a few different colour variations (a completely brown one like yours) and also an orange one which is a rarer colour. They are pretty variable in colour and shape. On my Murex lists I have them all listed as Hexaplex cichoreum. I knew them as Endive murex as the non-scientific name only.
I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Emma.
Re: Unknown murexes - poseidon - 12-27-2011
negative emma, in the year 1818 Mr lamarck called this specie with such name meaning hexaplex endivia lamarck, 1818 but the same shell were described already as hexaplex chicoreum gmelin 1791
Re: Unknown murexes - wateryworld - 12-27-2011
Hi, Poseidon. The way you word your sentences isn't really helping to explain what you're trying to say, it's only confusing. Your first response said "it is chicoreus endivia", but when I ask for clarification, you said "the first is correct (meaning) cichoreum". This implies you mean that "hexaplex", and not "endivia", is its proper name. You then say emma is wrong, but yet again your own wording says not. You write in a confusing manner that is actually almost saying the opposite of what you mean. If the shell was FIRST described as cichoreum, then "endivia" should logically be a synonym, which I already asked.
If you search for "chicoreus endivia" on Google, it tries to redirect you to articles on the edible plant, endive, not the shell....
Re: Unknown murexes - Emma - 12-28-2011
The way I understand Poseidon, he is saying that the Hexaplex cichoreum was named by Gmelin in 1791 and that the same shell was "renamed" Hexaplex endivia by Lamarck in 1818. I think the discussion is purely taxonomical. In a nut shell, it's the same shell with two different names, named by two different people. I know it as Hexaplex cichoreum and I have also bought them as Hexaplex cichoreum. However, the other name appears to be a synonim. I have been collecting for over 20 years and I have only read the 'endive' name as the non-scientific name, so I'm all out of ideas, I'm affraid. I wish I could be of more help to you, my friend!
Best wishes, Emma.
Re: Unknown murexes - wolfi - 12-29-2011
Japs, I think, Emma is right.
In general, the older name has priority and the younger name is just a synonym and shouldn't be used. So the species should be named Hexaplex cichoreum (Gmelin, 1791) [= Chicoreus cichoreum].
poseidon: "......but the same shell were described already as hexaplex chicoreum.......". Sorry :-[, but as far as I know, Gmelin named the species "cichoreum", not "chicoreum".
GMELIN (1791): Caroli a Linné – Systema Naturae, Tom. I, Pars VI. (Murex cichoreum p. 3530) Â
Kind regardsÂ
: wolf
Re: Unknown murexes - poseidon - 12-29-2011
watery world my intention was to say that endivia it's not a non scientific name that's why I wrote negative to emma. meaning that into my second post I clarify the matter thus the two name are both scientific though in synonymy.
wolfi you right